Ready to breathe a sign of relief? Welcome to Ask Dr. Jodi where you get trauma-informed mental health and relationship advice that you won’t hear anywhere else. Today, we’re exploring avoidant attachment and how past traumas can lead to withdrawal in relationships. I’ll be joined by guests Sue and Amy for live coaching, where I’ll share insights on understanding, addressing, and overcoming avoidant behaviors so you can build healthier, more fulfilling connections.
Hi, I’m Dr. Jodi Aman, and today we’re diving into a relationship topic that hits close to home for so many of us: avoidant attachment. You might have heard about attachment styles before, but we’re going deeper into what avoidant behaviors really are, why they develop, and how they affect our ability to connect with the people we care about. I’m here to share powerful insights, relatable stories, and practical tips to help you navigate these challenges and build healthier, more fulfilling relationships. Let’s get started!
Episode Summary:
In this episode, I explore the concept of avoidant attachment—a pattern where individuals pull back from intimacy and emotional closeness in relationships. We’ll start by unpacking the roots of avoidant attachment, which often stem from past trauma, unmet emotional needs, or a fear of vulnerability. I’ll help you understand how these behaviors, like distancing, shutting down during conflict, or avoiding deep emotional conversations, often serve as coping mechanisms, not character flaws.
Together, we’ll explore how to identify avoidant tendencies in yourself or your partner and, most importantly, what you can do about them. I’ll share actionable strategies to help you foster open communication, develop empathy, and set healthy boundaries—tools that can make a huge difference in creating stronger, more secure relationships.
This episode also features live coaching with guests Sue and Amy, who are navigating relationships where avoidant attachment plays a role. You’ll hear real-life examples of how to approach and manage these dynamics, offering you relatable and practical insights you can use in your own life.
If you’re ready to better understand yourself or your loved ones and transform avoidant patterns into opportunities for deeper connection, this episode is for you. Let’s dive in!
Thank you so much for listening! If you enjoyed today’s episode, please take a moment to leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts and share it with someone who needs inspiration or help to heal! ger, happier generation!
[00:00:00] Dr Jodi Aman: Good evening. You're here to learn about avoidant attachment behavior. This is quite a buzzword nowadays. All over the internet, people are talking about avoidant attachment. And in the past, we used to call this people with commitment issues. But it's interesting when they start to use different language or different terminology for the ways people act or feel or be in relationships.
[00:00:31] Dr Jodi Aman: I'm not a fan of labels. So I want to put that caveat in now. I'm not really a fan of labeling people. We can label behaviors. So that's what we're calling it avoidant attachment behaviors. But you hear a lot of times people calling people avoidant attachment. And I don't know If we called people, these negative terms, then people are going to start to see themselves in these negative ways.
[00:00:57] Dr Jodi Aman: And then they'll start to perform that identity and they'll become more of what that is, right? But if we call it a behavior, then two people could work together against the problem. So I like that a little bit better. So keeping that in mind, as we talk today, we have a couple of people that are calling in.
[00:01:15] Dr Jodi Aman: Our first call in is Sue and we'll get to her in a moment, but I really want to talk about , What is avoidant attachment? And it is exactly what it sounds. They want to avoid attaching or avoid intimacy or avoid getting too close to somebody because it scares the living daylights out of them. To get close to somebody is so scary, either because they feel too vulnerable and that feels out of control to them.
[00:01:44] Dr Jodi Aman: They feel like maybe that person will leave them. They feel like they're undeserving. They might not be conscious of it, but these are the things that's underlining this avoidant attachment. Getting close to somebody feels scary. It feels powerless. It feels a bit out of control. And what do we do when we feel out of control in a situation?
[00:02:05] Dr Jodi Aman: We try to get some control. And the way that avoidant attachment People with, who have avoidant attachment behaviors to get out. It's hard to do that, right? It's hard not to label people that, but the way they do it is withdrawing. So they pull back from a relationship when they feel like they're getting too close because that feels scary.
[00:02:26] Dr Jodi Aman: Now, like I gave you some examples of why people might be scared and they might not know it necessarily, but there's a lot of reasons why people would be scared about getting close to somebody. And. I want to be clear that this is a trauma reaction, right? This is not like some people are just born this way.
[00:02:45] Dr Jodi Aman: This is a reaction of somebody who has had experience in their life of loss, of trauma, of hurt of not feeling secure. In the relationships, especially when they were really young, they didn't have that security. And there could be a lot of reasons for that. Maybe, a parent was in the hospital or somebody, or maybe a grandparent was sick and that parent was preoccupied or a sibling was sick.
[00:03:10] Dr Jodi Aman: Maybe their parents had substance issues. There's so many different reasons. Maybe their parents had so much trauma in their past, they weren't emotionally available, right? So there's so many different reasons why somebody could have had trauma. It could be war trauma. It could be a natural disaster.
[00:03:31] Dr Jodi Aman: It could be ancestral trauma that they're experiencing, that they're still, it's still in their DNA and they're still living it out. So there's so many different, right? Traumas that people have, and almost everybody's experienced something. Big T traumas, little t traumas. I want to say big T. It's like really something really awful.
[00:03:50] Dr Jodi Aman: Some really awful on injustice has happened. But all of us are experiencing it in little ways. And some people don't even know what their trauma is. So what we're finding lately, especially with somatic psychology, is that people are having consequences of their trauma, meaning they have anxiety, they have body problems, they have ways they're thinking, they have overthinking, they have avoidant attachment behaviors, they don't get close to people, they withdraw, they isolate.
[00:04:21] Dr Jodi Aman: They get hyperattached to somebody and then, and then start to freak out. Whatever happens, all of these are responses to trauma. , these are so many different ways that we have consequences to trauma and sometimes we don't even know what the trauma is.
[00:04:36] Dr Jodi Aman: It could have been a medical trauma, as a four year old, we could have had stitches, but in the emergency room, we didn't quite feel safe. And that experience and we won't remember that as a trauma. People could and quite often have consequences still as an adult. So when we're talking about avoidant attachment or trauma responses, we're not blaming parents.
[00:05:01] Dr Jodi Aman: We're not blaming parent families of origin. Sometimes that's where the chaos or the insecurity came and sometimes not. It could depend. Sometimes kids have trauma that they experience out in the community from other leaders in the community, unfortunately, as horrible as that is. And sometimes poverty and there's other ways that we could experience trauma.
[00:05:27] Dr Jodi Aman: So that being said, avoiding attachment, people who. have avoidant attachment behaviors aren't bad people. They're hurt people. But that doesn't mean they don't hurt others because quite often if you're in a relationship with somebody who has avoidant attachment behaviors, you feel hurt a lot. You feel insecure a lot.
[00:05:50] Dr Jodi Aman: You feel like you're unworthy a lot. And this has nothing to do with you. And so we're going to talk about that a little bit. We're gonna bring Sue on. And we're going to talk to Sue about her experience in her relationship and she's going to tell us a little bit about it. I don't know Sue, so this is really exciting.
[00:06:08] Dr Jodi Aman: So I'm hearing about the story for the first time and we're just going to talk about her experience with a person with avoidant attachment and do a little live coaching or see what we can learn from her story. . It's really interesting is that, when I was really thinking about and preparing for tonight about avoidant attachment, I was thinking the overlap, like the Venn diagram of avoidant attachment and narcissism.
[00:06:33] Dr Jodi Aman: Cause that's another buzzword that we hear about all the time and there's a lot of similarities. Both of these are anxieties. Both of these are responses when you're feeling out of control. Both of these are trauma responses, right? When somebody with avoidant attachment, their first thing to do when they're feeling out of control is to pull back.
[00:06:53] Dr Jodi Aman: And a narcissist, they might pull back. That might be one of their tactics, too. But when they're feeling out of control, they try to get control over other people around them. So maybe avoidant attachment sometimes is controlling themself. And narcissism is sometimes controlling somebody else, but it's the same thing.
[00:07:11] Dr Jodi Aman: It's fear, right? It's fear of being, being vulnerable, fear of being out of control. It's, they're both anxieties. And there's a lot to say on this subject because I think, a lot of people are struggling trying to. Make something work with somebody who are so dear to them because these are beautiful people and you know that this behavior, this withdrawing behavior is because they're feeling scared or they're feeling not good enough and you know that and so and sometimes it makes people love that person more.
[00:07:44] Dr Jodi Aman: Like you love them even more because you feel bad, right? You're so compassionate. You're so loving. You see the good in them and it makes you love them even more. When you are in a relationship with somebody, they're dear hearts, right? They're just beautiful people who they don't know how great they are, right? They don't know how beautiful they are and how wonderful they are, but you see it and you feel like, I want to love you enough so you could see how great this is and you're not afraid of this intimacy or this relationship or this closeness, because you can see how great it is.
[00:08:19] Dr Jodi Aman: I'm going to love you enough. And the problem is they have to participate in it. Loving someone and relationships are healing and it works sometimes for people of history of trauma who are nervous or afraid or worried. Okay. So you have the sympathy and compassion and you feel like my love could heal them. Sometimes it does.
[00:08:42] Dr Jodi Aman: Actually, love is what heals, validation, lifting somebody up, loving is what heals all of us. This is what all of us need. When we've been hurt in our life, we've been devalued by that hurt, by trauma that we felt. We feel unheld. I've come to understand because I've worked with trauma so long that I've come to understand is our experience of trauma is an experience of being unheld.
[00:09:05] Dr Jodi Aman: So alone and insecure in that aloneness, like no safety. That's what I mean by unheld. And so to heal from trauma, we have to be held. That's why somatic psychology is so important, like real, actually literally like holding your body and having your body field held again will help it release some of those, some of the tensions that's held in there from the trauma that you've experienced.
[00:09:34] Dr Jodi Aman: So that's why it's like little soft touching or holding yourself. This held ness is really important. So often relationships are where people do heal from trauma, but The other person has to participate in it. So if you're in a relationship with somebody who, when you get close, they withdraw. And then they, but they don't leave all the way because they keep coming back and they keep keeping contact with you.
[00:10:04] Dr Jodi Aman: And then you get back together with them and then they feel close again and they want to pull back again.
[00:10:10] Dr Jodi Aman: So if you are trying to love a person healed, they have to participate. They have to allow themself to feel held and they may be too scared. So if they're pulling back when you get close and then they keep reaching out to you and reaching out to you and eventually get back together and then you get close again and they pull away again and then it happens again like they don't want to let you go completely because you're the only person who's ever accepted them, right?
[00:10:39] Dr Jodi Aman: Or they feel so accepted by you and they love that feeling and they just want to stay connected to that. But then when it comes really close, they get overwhelmed and feel out of control and try to get control over the situation, withdraw again. They have to participate and have some kind of awareness and want to heal that, want to stop that pattern.
[00:11:02] Dr Jodi Aman: Okay. So I'm going to call
[00:11:03] Dr Jodi Aman: let's see if this works.
[00:11:06] Dr Jodi Aman: Ringing. Hello. Hi Sue, it's Jodi.
[00:11:10] Sue: Hi.
[00:11:11] Dr Jodi Aman: This is so exciting. Sue, tell us a little bit about what's going on.
[00:11:16] Sue: So I was in a relationship for nine and a half years and the gentleman that I was with we started seeing each other and literally 14 months later, after seeing each other, he finally committed to wanting to be in a relationship with me, which should have been a red flag right then and there
[00:11:37] Dr Jodi Aman: That it took so long, you mean, that it took so long?
[00:11:40] Sue: Yeah. But, super nice guy. Definitely did a little love bombing in the beginning. Super sweet. And when we, Decided we were going to be together as a couple. Within a couple of months, he pulled me aside and said, Hey, I've got, something to tell you. If I need to take off for a little while, don't get worried.
[00:12:02] Sue: I'll be back. I just need my space. Another red flag. I should have paid attention to, but I didn't. And
[00:12:09] Dr Jodi Aman: did you even ask why? Did you even ask why?
[00:12:12] Sue: He was in a very stressful job. And I understood the job and I understood the stress and I could imagine that he would need to go away and regroup. That to me sounded normal.
[00:12:25] Sue: And that same weekend, he sent me a cute little cartoon that said, some people show up in your life for a reason, thanks for showing up. And it, it just all made sense at the time. And as our relationship continued, I noticed that his lack of wanting to be around people.
[00:12:42] Sue: Wanting to be around crowds we get invited to a gathering, and last minute he didn't want to go Invited to many weddings, and we talk about going, and it would be like two days before the wedding, and to go. And that was a huge stress on the relationship as far as for me, not for him, but hard for me.
[00:13:05] Sue: I work from home, so I don't get out much. And I didn't realize a lot of this until last year when he told me he was leaving. So he left the relationship. And so then, of course, you start spiraling because I'm thinking, what happened? What happened? We hardly argued, we hardly fight we, there, there was nothing to fight about really, but we didn't have any major arguments or anything, so I couldn't understand why he was breaking things off.
[00:13:37] Sue: So you start reading, and then I'm thinking, oh my god he's totally unavoidant, and I didn't know it, being in it, until I was out of it, I realized, What everything was.
[00:13:50] Dr Jodi Aman: So where are the two of you at now?
[00:13:53] Sue: So now a year later he eat breadcrumbs me, so he'll send me texts here and there. More so recently this July.
[00:14:02] Sue: But prior to that, I get a couple of reminiscences like, Hey, do you remember this place? Or do you remember when we went here and what that looked like? And Oh my God, look at this person. They're still taking funny photos. Do you believe it? That kind of stuff. And I'd be sitting here going, you didn't want to be with me, but yet you still want to be in contact with me, which.
[00:14:22] Sue: is extremely confusing.
[00:14:24] Dr Jodi Aman: Yeah.
[00:14:25] Sue: Because it's do I, do you want, and then everything you read says you don't want to push and avoid, you don't want to push them. You want to have boundaries and boundaries are hard for me. Because I fear if I have boundaries, I'm going to push them further
[00:14:40] Dr Jodi Aman: away.
[00:14:40] Dr Jodi Aman: But how so what is your end goal then? If you don't want to push them further away, or is that for right
[00:14:49] Sue: now, we're still communicating way more than we have been in the past months. So I don't know where this is going to end up. I just know that for right now, I take it day by day.
[00:15:01] Dr Jodi Aman: But do you want to get back together?
[00:15:04] Sue: Yes, I would love to.
[00:15:05] Dr Jodi Aman: Okay.
[00:15:06] Sue: Because, when you're in a relationship, you don't see it, you don't realize it, but when you read about it or you analyze it and I've become very anxious, obviously I want to make changes. I know there's, because honestly, we had fun. We used to have a great time together, not necessarily with a group of people or stuff or anything, but we would have a great time together.
[00:15:29] Sue: We'd laugh, we'd, there was no Reason not to be together.
[00:15:34] Dr Jodi Aman: Just, I guess his. Whatever we'd want to, whatever the fear is, if it's fear of being too close or fear of not getting space if he needed it and then he has to get it whatever that is leading it. They're all maybe the same, but they're all a little bit different.
[00:15:50] Sue: Yeah. So when, when he decided to leave at that point in time, there was some major issues with his family with one of his children. And that was major stress at work. Very compounded stress at work, more than normal. And I know he was extremely stressed because he wasn't sleeping very well.
[00:16:12] Sue: And looking back now, he didn't really talk about a lot of it either. He tucked a lot of it in and all of it made sense. And then one day
[00:16:22] Dr Jodi Aman: Did he ever talk about things that were vulnerable?
[00:16:26] Sue: Not very. He would talk about situations at work but he wouldn't get into the nitty gritty of how it made him feel.
[00:16:33] Dr Jodi Aman: Yeah.
[00:16:34] Sue: He never talked about his feelings. Never told me when he was sad. I saw him cry once when a very good friend of his died of COVID. And He only let me see him cry for literally 30 seconds, and he went into the bathroom. But that's human, that's normal to cry when a very close friend dies, and he did not want to be that vulnerable at all.
[00:17:03] Dr Jodi Aman: So so you're, so you hope, you really want to get back together, you look, you care about him, you had really a lot of fun together, yes there was issues. Now that he is bread crumbing or he is talking to you a little bit more since July, and you're afraid of anything that you would do in terms of setting boundaries.
[00:17:22] Dr Jodi Aman: 'cause you're afraid he would take off, but if you didn't set boundaries and then he came and then he came back, where are you in that?
[00:17:37] Sue: Okay, so in my thinking is. I want to be able to talk to him when he's at a place where he is capable to talk about it as well. Do you know what I mean? Because he hasn't
[00:17:52] Dr Jodi Aman: But if you don't, if you don't invite him into that, and know that he can do that, you could really wait for a long time.
[00:18:00] Sue: I know.
[00:18:02] Dr Jodi Aman: And so it's it's you want to weed it out fast. It is. It's you want to weed it out faster and it's fail faster. Because you could take years in this situation. And it will take a really long time to get over and you might be wasting more time where you could be really getting over him, which is going to be hard as hell, but getting over him and getting and meeting somebody else.
[00:18:24] Dr Jodi Aman: But yeah, so first of all, we don't know if he wants to get back together. We don't know if he will ever want to, we know that he's communicating and you would like to. That's the information that we have. And if you keep waiting, you might have a better chance cause you're not going to scare him away, but also , if you don't know what he's thinking or what he's willing to do differently, then you might be waiting for nothing, Do you know what I mean?
[00:18:54] Dr Jodi Aman: Like, when do we put you first, is my question.
[00:18:57] Sue: Yes. Meanwhile I'm still doing things for myself, and I take care of a home on my own, I have two jobs I have my own business it's not like I just, crawled into a ball and said, okay, I'm gonna just sit here and wait.
[00:19:11] Sue: I am trying to do more things for myself. And level myself up regardless of what happens down the road. But at this point in my life, I'm 59 years old. I never thought I'd be in this position
[00:19:24] Sue: for sure.
[00:19:25] Sue: And I know I can't wait much longer because I can't waste more time.
[00:19:34] Dr Jodi Aman: I guess that's like a deal that you're making with yourself.
[00:19:37] Sue: Yes.
[00:19:37] Dr Jodi Aman: Because you could consciously wait. The unconscious waiting is what like kills us. Yeah. But if you're consciously like, you know what, I'm going to give it to the new year. And I know with my eyes open, I could be wasting my time here, but I, this is worth it to me. I'm going to really open my heart and take some risks here and see if there's anything here.
[00:20:01] Dr Jodi Aman: I just said the new year, like I know that might sound so soon, but if you're watching this recording, it is in the third weekend of October. So if you're wondering when we're talking about, so you, yeah, so you could make a deal with yourself because really you don't have to figure out how to trust him again.
[00:20:20] Dr Jodi Aman: You have to figure out how to trust yourself. And so if you're consciously with your eyes open, it's worth waiting for, then, your eyes are open and you, no one can ever tell you're a fool for waiting because your eyes are open. But some people, they don't decide, but not deciding is a decision.
[00:20:42] Dr Jodi Aman: And keep waiting.
[00:20:43] Sue: And also too, do I think he's having a midlife crisis? Yes. Do I think a lot of people in midlife crisis are avoidants? Yes. Do I think he knows that he has some issues. I think he knows something there, there's something not right.
[00:21:05] Dr Jodi Aman: So I don't know if you got to see before I was talking about how if somebody is willing to do that work, then it's worth it.
[00:21:13] Dr Jodi Aman: Like you could love them so much, but if they're just not willing to change or try anything, then you know, it doesn't come in. And so that, is what I'm thinking about using this time for, is yes, in, and maybe it's not sub boundaries, maybe it's invite him in. and invite him in with clear expectations that we know there's a problem here.
[00:21:39] Dr Jodi Aman: And if you're willing to work on it, I'm here, I'm willing. In, in that, and it's that's what I mean by fail faster. Cause if he's nope, then you're clear. But right now you don't have clarity about what. Is possible or what he even wants. But then you might be, and if the answer is no, learn it earlier instead of learning that later.
[00:22:02] Dr Jodi Aman: I guess that's what I would suggest.
[00:22:05] Sue: Yeah. Because even with some of the things with the breadcrumbing stuff. So he invited me to his apartment for the first time since he moved out. And that was, back in August of last year. And I thought that was really huge. He invited me to his personal space and I thought that was very big of him.
[00:22:26] Sue: And he also is having some medical procedures actually this week. And for the first time I heard vulnerability words like I'm afraid and I'm scared. And I was like, wow, I've never heard those words out of your mouth.
[00:22:41] Dr Jodi Aman: So I think you're right to ask him you're also with like my, I have a group for people who are empathic and they, and I feel like you will fit into this group that meet, I meet with every other week.
[00:22:56] Dr Jodi Aman: And I, that was not my intention at all, but I'm like, Oh, this person will fit into my group. Anyway I'll text you about that. If anyone wants to know about a group, you go to jodiaman.com/activate. jodiaman.com/activate It's a live group. That that I work with anyway, you might really like it, but I'd love to hear what happens. And if you want, if you feel free sharing feel good about sharing that with us, we'd love to hear what happens and I could share it with everybody on my audience as well, because we're invested.
[00:23:27] Sue: Okay, great.
[00:23:27] Dr Jodi Aman: You deserve it. You deserve it. You deserve, you deserve to be the center of worth. You deserve to feel worthy and feel like you are important and special. That's what you deserve. Thank you. I feel that way. Good. I do. Awesome. Awesome. All right.
[00:23:47] Sue: Thank you.
[00:23:47] Dr Jodi Aman: You're welcome.
[00:23:48] Dr Jodi Aman: Thanks Sue. Bye. Okay,
[00:23:52] Dr Jodi Aman: all right, this is Amy.
[00:23:54] Amy: Hello.
[00:23:54] Dr Jodi Aman: Hi Amy, it's Jodi. You're live here on my show. I just have you in front of the microphone here. I just finished my last caller. And we want to hear about you and Kyle and if, see if we could help. And I know we're going a little over. I hope that's okay. There's still free.
[00:24:12] Amy: Oh, that's totally fine.
[00:24:13] Amy: Yes, I'll probably I usually call him K.
[00:24:16] Dr Jodi Aman: Okay, good. To make,
[00:24:18] Amy: to make it short I met Kyle, I met K about 13 years ago, we were early 20s, and he was, he still really is my first love. But back then He got scared that the relationship was moving too fast and he had said he'd been hurt before, so he didn't want to do that.
[00:24:36] Amy: So we broke up and we've been off and on since then for 13 years. I know. I hear it from my friends, my family. That's a long time. I get it.
[00:24:45] Dr Jodi Aman: So you're like mid 30s. I'm doing the math.
[00:24:49] Amy: A lot of my friends say that we are either Ross and Rachel from Friends, or we are Carrie and Mr. Big from Sex and the City.
[00:24:58] Dr Jodi Aman: Yeah, that, those relationships were created to get people to watch the show, right? That's not how, it does happen. It happens obviously, and it happened to our last caller. Sue was talking about a similar situation. She was with someone for nine and a half years. So yes, you're not alone, and there's tons of people that have these kind of experiences.
[00:25:17] Dr Jodi Aman: But but it doesn't feel good, does it?
[00:25:21] Amy: No, and I know that I get sucked back in, but I allow it to. It's not like he's just doing anything to me, but most recently was just about, let's say, two or three weeks ago. We had connected, reconnected again after both dating other people. And we've been dating, and I thought it was going really well, and all of our friends were happy.
[00:25:41] Amy: They're like, it's about time.
[00:25:42] Dr Jodi Aman: Finally!
[00:25:43] Amy: We're getting older. I might want kids. I don't know. But he starts doing the same thing. He's just very avoidant, and I've been reading about that, and I know that's what it is. He gets scared. And so he starts doing the same thing, and he's I think we should just go back to being just friends, but I can never do that,
[00:26:02] Dr Jodi Aman: let me ask you, does he know that you've been doing reading, and does he know that, about getting afraid and withdrawing?
[00:26:10] Amy: I think he knows. I think that he's He won't admit it because of his ego, but he will definitely I think he knows and I
[00:26:21] Dr Jodi Aman: What does he say though when you, yeah, when you bring it up or you talk about it?
[00:26:24] Amy: I'm trying to tell him that I would never hurt him like that. Even though he's hurt me, I know. I'm trying to just Make him see that he doesn't need to be fearful. I'm like, I'm not trying to take your independence away. I'm
[00:26:38] Dr Jodi Aman: not So when he's denying that he's denying that he's fearful he's like i'm not afraid.
[00:26:44] Dr Jodi Aman: Is that what he's saying?
[00:26:46] Amy: Oh, basically, yeah, but he knows that I haven't figured out like he will men get that kind of look on their face Like that's not me. I just two things that I really need help with. Okay one like I want to know one Okay Ask him to go get therapy, maybe, without hurting his ego.
[00:27:05] Amy: Or two, the other thing I want to know is then, if he's just really done this time, I'm not going back. It's too long to wait. I need help getting over this whole situation, because obviously I'm still up with it,
[00:27:17] Dr Jodi Aman: okay so I guess we have to, I think that, think about it as an invitation to him.
[00:27:22] Dr Jodi Aman: You're inviting him to I'm going to swear. I'm sorry. I try not to swear on social media, but shit or get off the pot, right? The invitation is let's do this for real. Try to be life partners or or decide to part. And. And we have to see if he's willing, if he's I'm not sure yet.
[00:27:42] Dr Jodi Aman: And they could drag you out for nine more years, or that might mean that would definitely mean to him that he's got to do some inner work. It could be with a therapist or could be reading about it. It could be different work or men's groups, or there's so many different ways that we can heal ourself from whatever that was that hurt us.
[00:28:01] Dr Jodi Aman: Yes, the therapist would be great. And maybe it would be as a couple. But I'm pro therapy because I'm a therapist, but if you want to invite him, I was telling Sue this in the last call, like fail fast, right? So if it's going to not go well, do that, get to that as fast as possible because there's nothing to pushing that off.
[00:28:22] Dr Jodi Aman: It's just more wasted time and just longer to get over him. And so you want to invite him into let's make it, let's make a decision here. We're smart people. We love each other. We can figure this out if we want to stay together and try to be partners with each other. There's still no guarantees.
[00:28:38] Dr Jodi Aman: It doesn't mean you're stuck. You still wake up every day and commit to somebody, right? So I've been with my husband for 26 years and every day I have to say yes to it. It's not if I didn't try, we wouldn't be good, if I'm just like, yeah, take it. Yeah, we're going to stay together.
[00:28:52] Dr Jodi Aman: I'll never leave him. I wouldn't try, but every day I have to do that. So I'm not talking about it's guaranteed. You're still have to choose it every day. But if you want to choose it to try or to go forward and make that plan and he's got to be willing to, okay, something's got to change because when we get close, this is what happens.
[00:29:16] Dr Jodi Aman: So focus on the behaviors, instead of maybe saying you're scared or trying to tell him what he's feeling, but focus on when we get close, you want to just be friends. That's undisputable, right? Okay.
[00:29:28] Amy: I tried to be friends before, and I gave him space, and it never works, right? We end up
[00:29:34] Dr Jodi Aman: Yeah.
[00:29:35] Dr Jodi Aman: Yeah. When you're this age, you don't be friends with your ex. You do when you're young, when you're in high school, you date someone for a couple months, and then you're friends again because you're in the same friend group. But when you're older, when you're in your thirties, you dated someone nine years, you're not friends with that person.
[00:29:49] Amy: We either don't talk or we say we're gonna be just friends, but then end up, that's what
[00:29:54] Amy: happens.
[00:29:54] Dr Jodi Aman: Yeah so yes, so you may need, if this is, if he's a no, if he's I'm not gonna do that, I'm not ready for that, then be like, okay. It's been nine and a half years. If you're not ready now, you're not going to get ready.
[00:30:10] Dr Jodi Aman: And you're worth more than that. Amy, you are worth so much more than that, right? And so you want to make sure that you are saying, I'm worth somebody choosing me. And where's someone choosing me like that? Yeah. And so then you need a community. You need all your friends because they're all going to be like, thank God finally.
[00:30:31] Dr Jodi Aman: But you need your friends around you because it's a, it takes a community to break up with somebody that when you've had this kind of experience, it takes a community because it's so easy. To keep going back to that pattern, you really need a busy ness. You need people to hang out with. You need someone to text when you want to text him and don't want to text him.
[00:30:54] Dr Jodi Aman: You need you need a group. I told Sue, like I have this group of people who are empathic people, very sensitive people, women. And I'm, she was, I was like, you should join my group. I'm going to say the same to you. It's a you would love this group as well. But Yeah, just get people around who get you, who see you, who've had the similar experiences, who see the greatness in you to see that more, who actually see you, because like sometimes when you're with somebody who's like that, they, you don't feel very seen.
[00:31:25] Dr Jodi Aman: You're so busy trying to make them feel seen.
[00:31:28] Dr Jodi Aman: And that's what happens. I lose myself in them. I don't pay attention to my other friends sometimes,
[00:31:33] Dr Jodi Aman: exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So now it's about girlfriends.
[00:31:39] Amy: I think, like I said, it's been on and off, and neither one of us has dated anyone seriously, especially he's on the dating apps like crazy when we're not together.
[00:31:49] Dr Jodi Aman: It's gonna blow your mind when you get with somebody who just like adores you and wants to be with you.
[00:31:54] Amy: And I haven't had that yet.
[00:31:55] Dr Jodi Aman: I know it's, it does come and it'll blow your mind and it'll just be so great. I want that for you.
[00:32:03] Amy: Okay. That makes sense. I just need to talk to him and we know we need to talk.
[00:32:07] Amy: I'm out of town right now.
[00:32:08] Dr Jodi Aman: Yeah.
[00:32:09] Amy: Yeah, we know we need to talk.
[00:32:11] Dr Jodi Aman: Oh, okay. Good. That will tell us what happens. And we're with you and we see you. And we're, I hope, I hope he says yes and works on it, but he's got to be willing to work on it. Or you can't love him enough for both of you, or you can't love him enough for, to keep him there.
[00:32:27] Amy: I'm just ready to tell him, look, if you don't want to do this, that's fine, but I'm going to walk out of your, walk out the door and walk out of your life this time.
[00:32:37] Dr Jodi Aman: And you tell all your friends don't let me go back. Did you ever see that New Girl episode where I think Nick makes a video for himself if he goes back to that Caroline to remember how bad it was?
[00:32:49] Dr Jodi Aman: You got to do that.
[00:32:51] Amy: That's a good idea.
[00:32:52] Dr Jodi Aman: Yeah. So funny. I
[00:32:55] Amy: mean, I have a journal that will help a lot. I look back at my journal and I'm like, oh gosh, I don't want to do this again.
[00:33:01] Dr Jodi Aman: I help people. I help people in your situation all day long. Because, you really need that someone showing you and someone understanding of all of that behavior and but anyway, so let me know if I could do anything and I'm so glad that you came on and I hope that this works out.
[00:33:19] Dr Jodi Aman: It's not going to be easy, but
[00:33:21] Amy: but you're worth it. No, thank you so much. Yeah, because like I said people look at these and I'm glad I'm not alone The other caller had the same thing, people look at us and think we're either crazy or whatever, but it's just so hard
[00:33:34] Dr Jodi Aman: They're so easy to love.
[00:33:35] Dr Jodi Aman: People are so easy to love, man. They're dear hearts. That's what I was saying. They're just so easy to love and you know that they're hurting and you just want to, and like most people are empathic and that's why they're attracted, so anyway, that's a whole other episode,
[00:33:51] Amy: all right. All
[00:33:54] Dr Jodi Aman: Thank you so much, Amy. I appreciate you. I'm going to hang up, but we'll keep in touch.
[00:33:58] Amy: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:33:59] Dr Jodi Aman: You're welcome. Bye. All right. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in . I'm on live every Monday at 8 p. m. You could subscribe to my channel. You could listen to me on my podcast. You could catch me on YouTube or come on over all over the place. If you want to know what the topic of the week is, come on over to my website cause I have this resource for you.
[00:34:21] Dr Jodi Aman: It's a Generation Z Mental Health Generation Z Mental Health Resource Guide is for parents and teachers and counselors and Generation Z, because we really have to know what's going on with these guys and how to help them feel better. And all of the nuts and bolts of that is in this book. You can just download it free from my website.
[00:34:43] Dr Jodi Aman: So happy. I cannot wait to see you next week. Please or share, give me five stars on Apple podcast and tune in next Monday at 8 p. m. We have a special guest, Julia Leahy from More Pesto Please on Tik Tok. She's awesome. She's going to make you laugh, she's going to make you cry and we're going to have a blast.
[00:35:02] Dr Jodi Aman: So I'll see you next Monday right here and remember you are so much more than you think you are.