Ready to breathe a sign of relief? Welcome to Ask Dr. Jodi where you get trauma-informed mental health and relationship advice that you won’t hear anywhere else. Today, we’re exploring how to navigate family gatherings with compassion and clarity, especially if you’re dreading those holiday get-togethers. In this episode of Ask Dr. Jodi, I help you manage toxic family dynamics using trauma-informed strategies. Together, we’ll uncover practical ways to set boundaries that stick, protect your peace, and stay grounded during challenging interactions. With real-life coaching and insights, this episode will empower you to handle family stress while prioritizing your emotional well-being.
Hey, I’m Dr. Jodi Aman, and welcome to another episode ofAsk Dr. Jodi! As we head into the holiday season, I know many of you are thinking about how to handle tricky family situations. Today, we’re talking about how to deal with challenging family dynamics, set boundaries that actually work, and protect your peace. Stick around because we’ve got practical tips, insights, and a powerful live coaching session with Kim that you won’t want to miss!
Episode Summary
In this episode, we dig into the root causes of toxic family behaviours, I dig deeper, examining how unresolved trauma and fear can drive the actions that hurt us the most. You’ll hear from Kim, who opens up about growing up as the scapegoat in a family dynamic shaped by narcissism. Together, we explore how these patterns affected her relationship with her sister and the steps she’s taking to heal.
I share five trauma-informed strategies to help you stay grounded, manage pushback, and create emotional safety during difficult interactions. You’ll also learn how to shift your mindset, manage expectations, and reclaim your sense of self-worth—because you’re not defined by how others treat you.
This episode is packed with practical advice and heartfelt encouragement to help you navigate these relationships with clarity and compassion.
Key Takeaways
Resources Mentioned in This Episode
Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed today’s episode, please take a moment to leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts and share it with someone who needs inspiration or help to heal!
[00:00:00] Dr. Jodi: Everyone, this is going to be a great evening. We're going to be talking about how to deal with difficult family dynamics. So toxic family dynamics, toxic family personalities challenging things that we are facing as we go into the holiday season. And we're going to hear from Kim and Kim's going to tell us a little bit about her sister.
[00:00:22] Dr. Jodi: And we're going to do some live coaching right here and so share in the comments, one challenge that you face with your family members, something that you might be nervous about heading into the holidays.
[00:00:33] Dr. Jodi: And and what. Your plan is to deal with it. Join in the conversation, ask me anything you want, and also come on over to my website because I have this Generation Z Mental Health Survival Guide that you are gonna want to read if you're a parent, if you're a teacher, if you are an educator at all, or a counselor, you're gonna want to see my take on what is going on and how to reverse the mental health crisis because it's really it's It's upsetting.
[00:01:04] Dr. Jodi: It's really upsetting. And this episode is going to be really awesome for you. If you're a parent, if you're a young person, if you are a educator, if you're a counselor, because usually people who care about other people are sensitive, they're sensitive souls. And so they want to be nice to everyone, want peace in the family.
[00:01:29] Dr. Jodi: Because it's family, right? And they want that sense of belonging, but sometimes they're up against people that make it difficult or Make them nervous or make them upset because of how they act and behave And so let's take a little bit of a look at and please subscribe to my channel so You get a notification, click the bell, get a notification.
[00:01:49] Dr. Jodi: Anytime you'll hear that I'm on live or you'll get a notification. If I upload a video and lots of ideas and videos are going to be coming out. And I know I have said that for years, but this time I really mean it. I have tons of content going to roll out soon. All right. So let's talk about difficult Personalities, difficult family members.
[00:02:13] Dr. Jodi: What is going on here? And when people act in ways that are hard for other people to be around them, I'm trying to be diplomatic here. I don't want to call people names. I don't want to call people, like people aren't toxic. Behaviors are toxic. Coping strategies could be. very difficult and challenging for other people, especially if they're not good coping strategies, right?
[00:02:38] Dr. Jodi: Or if people are us versus them, they're either racist or misogynistic. They might be dismissive. They might be passive aggressive. They might be controlling, critical, All of these kind of behaviors usually come from some kind of fear within the person themselves. And they're masking that fear with all of these behaviors.
[00:03:03] Dr. Jodi: So when they feel powerless, they try to get power over through these behaviors. And these behaviors are hard to be around, especially if you're sensitive, because, you feel like you have to please them. You feel like you have to do what you can to keep them stable, right? We participate in that relationship.
[00:03:25] Dr. Jodi: They are feeling out of control and they kind of attach to you to try to help them feel more in control by controlling you or criticizing you or judging you or whatever they're doing. And for them, it regulates their emotions, but only temporary. It's not sustainable because it's power over somebody and it still feels out of control because you can't.
[00:03:48] Dr. Jodi: actually get power over anybody. And so they have to keep doing it and doing it right. So you're not actually helping them. Sometimes we feel like we stabilize them or we help them feel better or we keep them calm by people pleasing. It feels like we're helping. We're not actually helping. We're not actually calming the chaos maybe for a moment, but it just starts all again because they don't have coping mechanisms that help them heal what they're afraid of or heal the trauma that caused them to be afraid.
[00:04:23] Dr. Jodi: And so when people don't heal the trauma they experience, they're reliving those patterns. And sometimes on other people, sometimes they're just controlling themselves. So I want to use this caveat because I don't want you to feel like if you've had trauma, you're mean to other people.
[00:04:38] Dr. Jodi: And that's what I think. That is not the case. If you've had trauma and you are not doing the work to heal it or open yourself up to healing, because it is not a life sentence. You can heal. Stick with me and I'm going to keep showing you how, but if you open yourself up to healing the trauma, then you're Obviously you're not doing these behaviors, but also if you aren't, if you have trauma that's unhealed and there's a lot of fear coming out from that, you either control somebody else or situations or control yourself.
[00:05:16] Dr. Jodi: Like maybe you're cleaning or you have very rigid schedule for yourself or you're maybe, very controlled eating or something like that. Sometimes you're controlling yourself, so you're not hurting anybody else, but you are hurting yourself. And then sometimes people are controlling other people to try to get that regulation.
[00:05:35] Dr. Jodi: Neither of those are sustainable. Eventually, those both not even eventually, like long term, like within minutes of doing those kind of behaviors, it feels out of control again. And so you have to keep grabbing at them. And so it never feels good. But once you heal trauma, and when I talk about healing trauma, and this is for a different video, but we're talking about processing it.
[00:05:57] Dr. Jodi: So processing it so it's not like you're reliving it live and reliving the patterns live. You process it and you're taking it to a different part of your brain. And there's lots of ways to do that but we'll, we won't talk about it in this video because this video we're talking about dealing with difficult, dealing with toxic family members, dealing with toxic family behaviors.
[00:06:17] Dr. Jodi: Toxic behaviors. It could be one relationship. It could be everybody because they're learned behaviors, right? So someone's doing it and other people, because they've been experiencing it their whole life, they're seeing what works, what doesn't work, and it's a learned behavior. They're doing it too. So sometimes it's not just one person in a family.
[00:06:39] Dr. Jodi: There's many members in a family that have these poor coping skills. that make it difficult to be around them, right? They have these toxic behaviors that make it really difficult to be around them. So that's how it's important to understand where it's coming from. So you know that it is not you, right?
[00:07:00] Dr. Jodi: People aren't mean to you because they don't like you. People are mean to you because they don't like themselves. This is so important for us to understand because when people are mean, we take it personally. Of course we do. We're human and it hurts. That's normal. That's a normal human response. That doesn't mean you're weak or whatever.
[00:07:19] Dr. Jodi: It's regular response. If someone hurts you, it hurts. But when we have compassion for ourself over what happened, because it's not okay that happened and you have compassion for yourself, then you could take a step back and see from a bigger picture view and understand what is happening and you're not taking it personally.
[00:07:40] Dr. Jodi: So from after you have that compassion and validate that it's okay to feel hurt, then you could take a step back and that's what we're going to talk about a little bit more because this protects you emotionally. You take a step back and you understand. It's them they don't like. It's not you that they don't like.
[00:07:57] Dr. Jodi: Very powerful because then you could decide how you could respond. You're not in a victim role anymore. You actually feel bad for them because they're really sad, right? So that, that changes like your role and that change. We're gonna talk about that a little bit later. I'm gonna give you five trauma informed techniques for managing these toxic situations.
[00:08:19] Dr. Jodi: They're not toxic people, but they're toxic behaviors and they hurt and they're not okay. And so we're going to talk about how to protect yourself a little bit because basically you're not asking them to respect your boundaries. You're not asking them to be nicer to you because they have their own agenda going on and you can't control any of that.
[00:08:45] Dr. Jodi: So it's, so what we're going to do is we're going to talk to Kim for a little while. , if it comes up in my conversation with Kim, I'm going to tell you about the five trauma informed practices that you could do. And if not, if it doesn't come up with Kim, I'll tell you about them anyway, but I'm really going to be talking about how to set limits that people can't cross because that's going to be really important.
[00:09:06] Dr. Jodi: So it's time to bring on Kim.
[00:09:09] Dr. Jodi: Hello. Hello.
[00:09:11] Dr. Jodi: Hi Kim we are on live. I'm so glad that you're here. I know you're gonna talk about your sister, so why don't you just jump in and tell us a little bit about, your sister and what's been going on.
[00:09:22] Kim: Sure. Thank you so much for this time. So, background story. My sister and I Have been really close the majority of our lives just to give you a little bit about the background between our family dynamic, rather.
[00:09:39] Kim: So we were raised by 1 parent that was. or is a narcissist. And I was the scapegoat in the family. So everything was my fault. The aggression was mainly towards me, although it could be towards the other parent as well, but it was usually mainly me. And so I grew up. Feeling like everything's my fault.
[00:09:58] Kim: I can't do anything right. I'm such a bad kid because I was told that I was a bad kid. If I said nothing, I would still get aggression. If I tried to say, Oh no, that's not what I'm thinking. Or that's not what I did. I would get even more aggression. So nothing worked, right? Yeah. Fast forward until to where I'm an adult.
[00:10:17] Kim: I started going to counseling and that's where my counselor mentioned. That this parent was a narcissist and I, that's the first time I had heard of such a thing. I didn't even quite understand what narcissism was, but once I went down the rabbit hole, everything made sense finally to me. And I was just really grateful that they leaned into it, but I actually pushed back on that.
[00:10:40] Kim: I said, no, that's just what they call people when they're really arrogant or they don't like them. They'll just narcissist. No, that's what I was experiencing. And so things started to make sense. So I started to do healing. I remember my counselor asked me a lot of times, well, what do you need? And it would be so frustrating, Jodi, because I would have no clue what I needed.
[00:10:58] Kim: I think I have no idea. It would take weeks to figure out what I needed about a small feeling or a frustration.
[00:11:06] Dr. Jodi: Well, on purpose you were taught not to need anything, right? It was by design. You were taught don't ever need anything.
[00:11:15] Kim: Or your needs would be shut down or they had to bow down to that parent's need.
[00:11:20] Kim: And so you just start not needing things. And so I started to realize, okay, I started to take, little tests leaps of faith. And I remember there was a friend of mine. where I had a chat with her about something that can improve in our relationship boundary wise and just totally calm, comfortable, love her to death, but we just talked through it.
[00:11:40] Kim: And she said, okay, I totally understand it the way you said it. And there was healing. Because I didn't grow up with when you express something like that, it would have been World War III in my house. And so I started to realize, okay, so it's okay to talk about what you need. Okay. And have needs.
[00:11:57] Kim: So I tried this with my sister and I remember I was going through
[00:12:01] Dr. Jodi: Is your sister older or younger?
[00:12:03] Kim: She is older.
[00:12:05] Dr. Jodi: Okay.
[00:12:05] Kim: Just by a couple of years.
[00:12:07] Dr. Jodi: But it's interesting because you had said that this parent who you, who had narcissistic traits targeted you, but not her, you think?
[00:12:17] Kim: Oh, I'm certain. So she, everything she did was perfect.
[00:12:22] Kim: And when, and looking back it's hilarious because you notice, like for me, I was a straight A student. I worked, went to school, was very involved in extracurriculars got paid to go to university, all sorts of stuff on paper. I'm, the perfect child, but I was always told I was wrong. So nothing to me I did was good enough.
[00:12:44] Dr. Jodi: Have you tried harder to be more perfect than perfect?
[00:12:47] Kim: I think for me, it wasn't that I was desiring perfection because I noticed there was no such thing, but I felt like I needed to do works to earn. Love or affection or someone to remain with me or connected to me. And so that's something I had to go into adulthood.
[00:13:08] Kim: But yeah, so in I started with my sister. I remember I was going through a weird season. I was starting to feel really down as season of transition. And so I would talk to her about it. And she would tell me, Hey, why don't you just come over to my place, come over to my place. Everything was come over to my place.
[00:13:25] Kim: And I noticed, Hey, I keep coming into your space. Why don't you come over to my place and, check on me, be with me, meet my fur baby who she hadn't met. And I would always go and meet her. She had gotten one too. And I'm like, you haven't even met mine. I've had mine for a year now, we didn't live very far away from each other, just like a 40 minute drive.
[00:13:43] Kim: And that was nothing for us. And in saying this, She started to get defensive and I was thinking, wow, why are you getting upset? Basically, what I'm saying is I want to spend time with you and I want you in my life and to experience this, but ended up being an argument. A lot of times, if something like this happens, she'll just hang up on me.
[00:14:03] Kim: Or yell at me and then hang up on me, which is another characteristic that our narcissistic parent would do. So I would get so hurt because it seems so familiar. So a piece of me would say, wow, you knew what I experienced as a child because I would come to you about it. And you're doing it to me. Another piece would wonder why this was okay, that you could treat me this way without remorse.
[00:14:35] Kim: And then another piece would think, you know what? She probably has no idea that this is how She's treating you and that this is familiar, but I knew I couldn't say that you remind me that person. I tried that once and that did not end up well, end well. So, yeah. When did that start, Kim?
[00:14:52] Kim: When did that start? It started when I started I started to notice it when I would talk about something I needed or asking her questions about certain behaviors to try to understand. And I've always been that way, even as a kid, Hey, why did you do this thing? And it's not to question the motive, it's to understand, because then that tells me a lot of information.
[00:15:15] Kim: And even though I'm talking as calmly as I am with you, it didn't matter the question, any type of question any whiff of. You are criticizing or saying that I'm wrong. World war three. And really it's just my way of becoming of connecting and to be close with someone. So for me, my desire maybe a couple of years ago, and now I'm giving up but is to be close, but.
[00:15:43] Kim: in Kim being healed and healthy and knowing what she needs right now, which means that we need to communicate and I should be able to talk to you about certain things. Just like I want you to talk to me. If I say something that affects you or offends you or an action that you didn't receive well or have questions about.
[00:16:05] Kim: That's open communication. That's how I grow close to people. And I want that with her, but I see that can't be, I've talked about counseling. Before my sister had her first baby and I wanted us to start before the baby came and I understand that's a whole different, when moms are expecting it's a lot but it didn't happen.
[00:16:25] Kim: I said, hey, whenever you're ready, I'm not going to bring it up again, but I just want you to know that I would really like for us to do this together. That was probably almost 3 years ago. I haven't heard anything and so, I guess what I'm hoping is for. I think in my mind that I'm accepting things the way that they are, but a piece of me, I want us to be close.
[00:16:50] Kim: I feel a sort of shame about us not being close. And usually if somebody asks about, your relationship with your sister, my first thought is we used to be close, right? I don't know how to explain this to people that I'm just meeting who didn't know us for a long time. Not that I need to explain it, there's a piece of you that's just Oh my gosh.
[00:17:10] Kim: I wish you knew us when we were close. A lot of people would envy our relationship, but that was a people pleasing Kim, right? Where I don't bring up anything that'll set her off or disrupt.
[00:17:22] Dr. Jodi: And if you did the relationship the way she wanted and you were close. When your needs weren't. There, when you didn't express them, when you didn't, ask for what you needed, which she took as a criticism, right? They're not necessarily criticisms, but everything that you say is interpreted through her as a criticism, as if you're the perpetrator and she's the victim of you. And so she gets upset and then she has to set boundaries with you by hanging up.
[00:17:55] Dr. Jodi: And so if you were. Yeah, and so when that's how you're close to people, but with people who don't know how to take feedback you know that you're right about unless she chooses it to Write about you can't be close in that the way that you want to be close Right the way that Kim needs that relationship to be because we can't control her
[00:18:24] Kim: right
[00:18:25] Dr. Jodi: or her healing You And I know that's it's really sad.
[00:18:29] Dr. Jodi: You could keep inviting her to open up to seeing the world differently, because it would be so great for her if she healed that stuff and could be actually really close with you. It would be good for her too and her kids, we know that. You know that like your healing process that you did with your counselor you I'm assuming you got so much out of it
[00:18:53] Kim: So much
[00:18:54] Dr. Jodi: and lost this relationship But the relationship wasn't for you.
[00:18:58] Dr. Jodi: It was for your sister
[00:19:00] Dr. Jodi: So there's a lot of grief there. I'm sure about this loss And still hope that your sister could decide one day to change Or to see or to understand in a new way I'm going to hold out for hope that your sister one day will be like, I miss my sister or somehow have some healing experience that brings her to I want to be closer to the people around me.
[00:19:25] Dr. Jodi: And or, and those feedback things won't be as huge. For some reason they were so huge and meaningful to her. Right. When you asked her a question, like, how come you don't come to my house? Or I it feels like, is, does she have trouble leaving the house? Is she have some I'm just curious.
[00:19:42] Dr. Jodi: Cause sometimes it's helpful for us to think about or imagine what the fear is. Because then we could know it's not us. It sounds like you don't, you're not taking this on like it's personal anyway, because you've done some work here.
[00:19:54] Kim: But I think I do feel as though it's personal. I don't see her treating others this way.
[00:20:01] Kim: It's almost as if she's playing along in the family dynamic. So that's the part that hurts. When, you were once so close, but as far as her not coming I, Without being in her brain and I'm not, it just seems like what's convenient for her right now is that you come over and then now I can do everything that I'm doing and woo you.
[00:20:23] Kim: And. I don't know that to me that's not how friendship works. It was so funny.
[00:20:28] Dr. Jodi: No, it's not a mutual relationship.
[00:20:30] Kim: Yeah. Yeah. And for me, I'm naturally a person that goes above and beyond. If she told me she was crying, I would have been in her driveway before we finished the phone. That's just, and so I had to learn.
[00:20:42] Kim: I guess we, over a couple of years, I dialed that way back. And so I think that actually is contributing where I she notices that I don't do the above and beyonds anymore because I'm not receiving them, surprise engagements, baby showers, like if you're celebrations, and if you get promoted, I'm sending you flowers, all these things.
[00:21:04] Kim: But when that happens for me I've noticed, and that also She would ask, well, what's going on? I give her all these updates. I'm so excited that these things are clicking and coming into place and all this and what I'm doing in the community. And she said, well, good for you. And that just wrecked me. And every time I heard it, so I just stopped sharing because I'm thinking, you know what, I'm proud.
[00:21:27] Kim: There are other people that are proud of me. This wasn't even a phrase I'm used to hearing out of her mouth. It was different if she always used to say that, but I noticed. Now it's just good for you. Oh good for you. So yeah, it's a lot of pain and I just need help like Managing the pain. I think probably the most recent example I can give you and then that'll be you'll have everything You need to understand Dynamic.
[00:21:52] Kim: One time I asked her why she didn't tell me whether she was going somewhere or not to an unfortunate family event. And I just wanted to understand because I also knew that if I didn't tell her. It would have been World War 3 and when sisters, if 1 sister shows up, they're going to ask where's the other and you're not thinking about how that can come off or I don't have an answer because I don't know whether you're coming or not.
[00:22:15] Kim: And that ended up being an argument. She said, well, I didn't like the way you told me. And so I told her I was going, I just text it to her and another family member. And she said, you're wrong. That was wrong. The way that you shared that. And I said, wait, but I told you my question. Let's go back to the original question.
[00:22:35] Kim: I asked, why didn't you tell me either way? Imagine how that's like to show up and I don't even know whether you're coming or not. She yelled at me later. She says, well, we don't talk anymore. And I said, Oh, okay. Well, that's it. Is it because we, we don't talk anymore. No, that's not it.
[00:22:50] Kim: I don't like the way that you, and I said, you're deflecting. Anyways, she got upset, started to raise her voice. I noticed I wanted to. And so I said, you know what? I have to go. I love you. The next day she called and apologized for hanging up on me, but said, I wasn't deflecting. And I didn't call you.
[00:23:08] Kim: That was what she was saying on the phone as well. I didn't call you to argue. I'm thinking, gosh, I'm not, I didn't call you to argue either. I'm just trying to understand. So it's it's me. And so you just want to scream because I'm thinking, I don't even know how to navigate this. A piece of me is like, what are you telling your husband about this?
[00:23:26] Kim: I wish he had my back, but also you can't do that. Right. But it's just a piece of you. That's just you want to be defended. It's like the little Kim and me that just wish somebody would defend me. And so since that argument, we haven't been talking and she has had a baby and I had to find out And we did chat on the phone or whatnot.
[00:23:47] Kim: And she said she was going to send me a picture. She didn't. And her husband I wasn't hearing back from her. I called her again and I said, just letting her know if you need any support, I'm here. Didn't respond. I text her and her husband because I just got this worried feeling. And he responded and said, Oh, thank you for your support.
[00:24:05] Kim: Here's a picture of the baby. I'm glad I finally got to see the baby. I'm like, thank you so much. If you guys need anything, let me know. I called her again, no response. So. Yeah she called me finally yesterday. We chat for a little bit, but she sounded a little off. And so, yeah, it's just, yep.
[00:24:23] Kim: That's where we're at.
[00:24:25] Dr. Jodi: Sometimes bonding over the baby, or you are seeing you enamored with the baby might. May, maybe make a transition, might be a spark that makes a difference. I'm not sure, I hear that you want to be close to her again, or you want to have a relationship with her and maybe with your niece, right?
[00:24:45] Dr. Jodi: This is beautiful baby. And and that would be just really beautiful for you probably to have this relationship with your niece. And so, cause I feel like the love and the wanting to belong and the importance of this relationship and not sure how much your sister is available for.
[00:25:05] Dr. Jodi: And. So, yes, friendships might be mutual and you could decide, I'm going to surround myself with friends that are mutual friends that uplift me and take care of me and, and that I could see myself through because we're only a self and relationships. So we see ourself through our relationships around us.
[00:25:25] Dr. Jodi: So it would be important to you to make sure you have a partner or you have friends or community in your life that are reflecting back how beautiful that you are, Kim. And how open and caring and the person who goes above and beyond and have people in your life who will do that for you Because you deserve that it is possible if you still wanted a relationship with your sister It might not be your ideal friendship relationship, but it could be a sister relationship Knowing that she has some limits And you don't have to go above and beyond and you don't have to open your heart up to her and You just have to trust yourself So if you wanted to it's an option you don't have to but it's an option to you know Go and meet your niece And, talk to your sister and try to give her some compliments about her motherhood and how she's managing or how she looks with her daughter and that kind of thing.
[00:26:24] Dr. Jodi: And so you could do that and try to become bonded again with her. And you know that relationship has limits. But you might need less because you're surrounded with these other people. Do you know what I mean?
[00:26:36] Kim: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:26:38] Dr. Jodi: So when you have a toxic family member and you don't want to cut them off, there's sometimes some people you're like, got to cut off and there's some people you don't want to cut off, but you can't control.
[00:26:49] Dr. Jodi: how they're going to meet you halfway. And there's still hope. Like I think your sister could maybe through her love for her daughter, realize I need to have more empathy and I get it now. People do change for sure. So, so I'm still hoping that could happen but you can go forward and have a relationship with her.
[00:27:09] Dr. Jodi: That that feels bonded, but it might be a little more surface, but there's a connection still, and it may be a little bit one way. To be honest. Oh, yeah, and if you don't want that then you don't want that It's like you're you can make a conscious choice where they're like, okay There are some people in my life that the relationships are one way and then there's other people in my life and I make sure I have enough people in my life that my relations are mutual So that I could do that, especially with what I do, you know as a coach or as a therapist A lot of my relationships in my life are one way, but like on purpose, it's professional.
[00:27:49] Dr. Jodi: But I have to balance that, if there are, heading into the holidays, if you really want to have a sense of family, that's really important to you, you can, you don't have to cut her out, but you can, if you're like, this is not working for me. And in my She keeps bringing me down.
[00:28:09] Dr. Jodi: It's okay to take some space like all your choices are okay As long as our conscious choices if that makes sense, then you're protected,
[00:28:17] Dr. Jodi: right?
[00:28:19] Dr. Jodi: Yeah
[00:28:20] Kim: Is it safe in your professional opinion? So, you know the piece of me the advocate that kind of wants to understand what's going on or almost Even though it's in a kind way, almost defend yourself.
[00:28:34] Kim: Just like for example, asking, Hey, tell me a little bit about why you didn't tell me that, whether you're coming or not. Is that, should I just close the door or not and just not do that with her?
[00:28:46] Dr. Jodi: If you know that she continuously and consistently does not take that well, then you're just disappointed, right?
[00:28:54] Dr. Jodi: And so if you see something different in her, and you see her understanding things in a new way, I invite you to try that again. And you can try it again, but without expectations, manage your expectations of what you can receive, because if you really want validation and you're not going to get it, you'll be more hurt and not less hurt.
[00:29:16] Dr. Jodi: And so if you. If you're, if you notice that what she does makes you want to defend and it makes you feel like she's treating you like you're less worthy or something like that, go have compassion for yourself. Go to a friend, get validation from that friend. Because why do you want to keep seeking validation from someone who
[00:29:36] Dr. Jodi: doesn't ever give you it. If you keep doing it, it's like the, it's a funny little meme, but like the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting something different. If you notice something different in her that then I invite you to try that again, but without expectations that you're going to be validated just to test it.
[00:29:54] Dr. Jodi: But I wouldn't do it regularly. Right. Yeah. Because this is the thing is, you have to set boundaries that she can't cross. This is what I promised in this episode is that I was going to teach people that People with toxic behaviors are passive aggressive or can't take criticism or they're critical or whatever.
[00:30:13] Dr. Jodi: They don't have good boundaries. And so you could set boundaries all day and they're not going to care about them. They're going to do what they need to do to feel good about themselves or to regulate their own emotions. And that means dismissing your boundaries. Most of the time it's and they've taught you like your parent with these narcissistic traits has taught you not to have any boundaries because they define your boundaries.
[00:30:39] Dr. Jodi: You do not get to define your boundaries. And so if you have a boundary, you're going to get gaslit. You're going to get made fun of. You're going to get like actual push further through your boundaries just to make sure you stop having them. So you have boundaries that your sister can't cross. So you don't really have much to defend because she can't tell you're unworthy.
[00:31:00] Dr. Jodi: Say that's a boundary, she can't define your worth by her behavior.
[00:31:05] Kim: It's not so much that I'm seeking for her to validate. That would be when back when I'd noticed that she's not celebrating with me, but now I'm over that. But it's more so I feel as though I'm defending myself. So,
[00:31:20] Kim: Oh,
[00:31:20] Dr. Jodi: but you're defending your value, right?
[00:31:22] Dr. Jodi: You're defending that you're worthy of being respected or you're worthy of having feedback.
[00:31:28] Kim: Right. So I, just so I don't feel like a pushover, like you can do whatever you want to do and it's okay. So I'm just raising my hand saying, Hey, that's not really right that you did that. Can you tell me a little bit more about it?
[00:31:42] Kim: Otherwise, it almost seems as if I'm a pushover and she can do whatever she wants. And
[00:31:47] Kim: I said,
[00:31:48] Dr. Jodi: But that doesn't translate to her.
[00:31:50] Kim: Yeah.
[00:31:50] Dr. Jodi: Right. So you, to not be a pushover, you need to have boundaries that she can't cross. So it's hard to give you an example. But if you're like. You say you have to go to the event, so I'm going to use your example.
[00:32:04] Dr. Jodi: You wanted to know if she was going to the event so you could make your decision if you're going or whatever, or like to have your head on straight to know if she'll be there or not or you'll be alone. You can't have those expectations, right? You have boundaries that she can't cross. You're going to go without any expectations or without any dependency if she's there or not.
[00:32:23] Dr. Jodi: And then you can never be a pushover, right? Because you're not dependent on that or you're not expecting that. So it's about managing expectations that makes you not a pushover or setting boundaries that she can't cross that makes you not a pushover, not her agreeing with the fact that you're not a pushover or that's what I mean by validating.
[00:32:44] Dr. Jodi: So you could say, this is not okay that you did that. You could do that. It's
[00:32:48] Dr. Jodi: You could stand up for yourself, right? So we're taught stand up for yourself, but really, You need to valid, know in your head that you're not a pushover.
[00:32:57] Kim: Oh yeah.
[00:32:57] Dr. Jodi: That wasn't okay that you did that. Yeah. So you don't have access to me now, or that wasn't okay that you did that, so I'm not gonna open my heart in that same way again.
[00:33:06] Dr. Jodi: But you don't even have to communicate that because with people who don't like boundaries set with them. Yeah. They're going to be triggered by that communication and get mad and hang up the phone. Yeah. But you just have to be like, not available. Right. So, you're not a pushover when you're not available for her to upset you.
[00:33:25] Dr. Jodi: You're humans. Of course, you're going to be sad about some stuff, but to really affect how you think about yourself or your value or that you're weak or a doormat, like her being able to give you that identity or have you take on that identity because of what she's treated you like.
[00:33:44] Dr. Jodi: You're not available for her to be able to do that.
[00:33:47] Dr. Jodi: You're not available for her to have that power over you anymore.
[00:33:50] Dr. Jodi: Does that make sense?
[00:33:51] Kim: Yeah. Yeah. I liked what you said. I don't have to communicate that I won't, that this isn't right, or I know that this isn't right. I can just, my actions, because being there had no problem, had a great time.
[00:34:04] Kim: It was nice. But in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, gosh, this would have been so, she would have lit me up for that. Right. And so I don't have to necessarily communicate it. Just
[00:34:13] Kim: have the,
[00:34:14] Dr. Jodi: no, you're not a pushover. You don't need to her to validate that you're not a pushover. You just don't be a pushover.
[00:34:20] Dr. Jodi: You're not, you're not anymore. So you just go ahead and not be a pushover and she could get mad sometimes. So this is the five trauma informed techniques this is not particular to you, but this is what I was going to share in this episode is these five trauma informed techniques to managing these challenging interactions.
[00:34:38] Dr. Jodi: And the first one is, Like preparing yourself and somehow getting grounded and being able to stay grounded when you're in the same room or on the phone or whatever you're doing. Like how to start ahead of time and do some grounding techniques. I have a whole video on grounding techniques, but doing grounding techniques so that you start.
[00:35:01] Dr. Jodi: Feeling really grounded because knowing that you're going to talk to somebody often brings the nervousness up and the anxiety up. And so we have to root back down into the ground and feel connected and like held. Trauma is feeling unheld. And feeling grounded is re, hold it like you're holding yourself.
[00:35:20] Dr. Jodi: And that's what I mean when I tell Kim to like you're not a push, you knowing you're not a pushover is what makes you not a pushover, not that person acknowledging that. Cause she's not going to. Unless she changes and people change. So I'm open to that too. And the second one is setting boundaries with realistic expectations.
[00:35:42] Dr. Jodi: So you set boundaries someone can't cross. You don't ask them, please don't do that anymore to me. This is not okay. I don't want you to do that to me anymore. They don't care about your boundaries. So you can't, so you're, you set boundaries with expectations that they're going to be upset about them.
[00:35:58] Dr. Jodi: Right. And that's why you don't have to tell them my boundaries. So say they call you late at night, you don't answer, you turn your phone off after nine. This is not your example, Kim, but instead of being like, please don't call me after nine, you are, you just never answer the phone after nine.
[00:36:13] Dr. Jodi: You see the difference between asking someone to respect your boundaries and setting boundaries that people can't cross. So with examples of they can keep trying, they could get mad at you for not answering the phone after nine. That's not your problem. People will get, some people will be upset about that, but that's what I mean by manage expectations.
[00:36:33] Dr. Jodi: You could set a boundary and people might get upset about it. Or gaslight you about it. But if you expect that they're going to do that, then it's a little bit easier, because ordinarily, if you don't expect, if you expect that they're going to listen to the boundary, then you're going to have guilt when they get mad about it, because that narcissistic parent has taught you to feel guilty if you set boundaries, because it's not okay.
[00:36:57] Dr. Jodi: It's like meat. They've taught you that it was, it's mean if you set boundaries, but it's not mean. It's safe. Setting boundaries are not mean. The third trauma informed technique is to manage pushback. So when they do give you pushback, if you expect that pushback, you just don't worry about it that much.
[00:37:17] Dr. Jodi: They'll hang up and then they'll come back. Okay. Again sometimes they'll hang up and not talk to you forever. Depends on, so if you set, if you're like, I don't answer after nine and the next day you're like, you didn't answer the phone. Just be like, sorry, my phone was off.
[00:37:30] Dr. Jodi: It's not you don't want to trigger them and be like I turn my phone off because you always call me. That would be a triggering. You just would be like, Oh, sorry, I was sleeping. So it's not personal. You had the boundary, but you're not trying to trigger them.
[00:37:43] Dr. Jodi: You're not trying to abandon them, and number four is having some emotional safety practices, like somehow like picturing a shield around you, picturing bright light coming out from the center of you so that, it pushes out this way and nothing bad can come back at you. I love if I'm going to be with somebody that's difficult to be around, I'll have a text buddy, I'll have my bestie know that I could text them through the event so I have somebody to validate me.
[00:38:13] Dr. Jodi: One more thing before the last one is, this might be helpful to you too, Kim, is that if they are, if you think of them as if you think of them as a client, it changes the position that you're in. So if your sisters are equal or she's a bully, you're a victim, right? But if you're a coach and she's a client, you would, and she's like having a difficult time or something, you would have much more patience.
[00:38:42] Dr. Jodi: Then you would, for your sister and you don't feel like a victim in it. Like you just have more compassion. It's just a little bit easier. So say you went to see your niece and you treated her like an overwhelmed first time mom and treated her like a client.
[00:38:57] Dr. Jodi: You're in a power position there and it's harder for her to hurt you in that position. You're not. Doing power over her, you're being kind and everything, but it's harder for her to hurt you that way And lastly, have an exit plan. When you are like, I'm going to, I have to get off the phone right now, cause you thought you were going to raise your voice and you're like, I'm going to get off the phone.
[00:39:20] Dr. Jodi: She probably felt abandoned, even though she was being mean to you. She probably felt abandoned by them and hung up before you could abandon her, right? This is like a, this would be a very triggering thing if you were to leave them. And so your expert, if there's somebody who's very difficult that you're dealing with, if there's, if they have some toxic traits, if you're in a family party or something, have an exit plan.
[00:39:44] Dr. Jodi: That's not something it's I'm leaving because you're being a jerk. Then they're gonna get mad. But if you're like, I'm leaving, if you're like, Oh, I I have to go because I don't know, there's a different reason, or you say, Oh, I'm going to, I have to go to the bathroom. So you just like exit that conversation and you go talk to somebody else after you go to the bathroom.
[00:40:03] Dr. Jodi: Nobody feels abandoned when you go to the bathroom. So that's always something I have people use because if you're like, I can't talk right now, I need a timeout and I'll come back. Other person feels so abandoned. They could get really triggered and worse in the conflict. But if you're like, I have to go to the bathroom, I'll be right back or something.
[00:40:20] Dr. Jodi: And then you just start talking to somebody else or. Or, you don't have to say, I'll be right back. You could just be like, I have to go to the bathroom. I'll talk, we'll talk later or whatever. Extricate yourself from that conversation without triggering them too much. And then it'll just ease.
[00:40:36] Dr. Jodi: I see. So those are my five, Trauma informed ways to react if you're, like, in person with someone, especially going to family parties. I know that's not necessarily your situation. I don't know, Kim, if you're thinking about seeing her for the holidays or what, but
[00:40:53] Kim: Yeah, it would be good for when I go visit and meet the baby.
[00:40:58] Kim: This is really good. I took some notes down. Thank you so much.
[00:41:00] Dr. Jodi: Oh, good. Oh, good.
[00:41:03] Dr. Jodi: What was your favorite takeaway?
[00:41:04] Kim: Wow. I think probably the biggest thing that I just a light bulb went off is that I don't have to communicate it. In my actions and in my growth, it's there. You can see it. It's plate as day.
[00:41:18] Kim: But one, not needing to understand what's going on in her mind, right? But then also I don't have to communicate the boundary and how you said it. It can be triggering and that's why I'm getting the response that I'm getting.
[00:41:31] Dr. Jodi: Exactly.
[00:41:32] Kim: She's just not exactly where I'm at. And that's okay.
[00:41:36] Dr. Jodi: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:41:37] Dr. Jodi: Yeah. And, when you say it's helpful to understand, I don't know, I know you were in the waiting room, so you could go back and listen to the beginning of this episode when I was talking about how to understand what those behaviors are and why people are behaving that way. There's usually a fear.
[00:41:53] Dr. Jodi: That's why I asked you is she afraid of leaving her house? There's a comfort there. You've trained her that you came there all the time, so it was a different behavior. Sorry. We're assuming, and I know you say that you were the target of the narcissism or the controlling behavior but somehow she's had trauma, right?
[00:42:09] Dr. Jodi: So she's experienced trauma because her behaviors are a reflection of the fact that she's experienced some trauma too. And so there is fear somewhere
[00:42:18] Dr. Jodi: that your change
[00:42:19] Dr. Jodi: of behavior, your change and how you are like triggered. Her feelings of feeling out of control or she's not good enough or or you're abandoning her, whatever it is, like you've really and she's unable to communicate that with you, which is unfortunate because you could tell her like, Hey, I love you more.
[00:42:38] Dr. Jodi: And, I'm more open to love and being intimate and being closer. Hopefully, she'll get that someday. I really hope so for you both.
[00:42:47] Kim: Thank you so much.
[00:42:49] Dr. Jodi: You're welcome. You're welcome. Well, thanks everyone for joining. If you're live, say hello. If you're watching this recording, I guess I'm getting off so you're not going to have early time to say hello, but thank you Kim so much for everything and sharing your story.
[00:43:04] Dr. Jodi: And it's really beautiful how much hope you have and love that you have for your family. Isn't that beautiful? People are just, It's nice to, it's nice to remember how beautiful people are because people are really beautiful. And I think we have to remember that right now. So good luck in the holidays.
[00:43:21] Dr. Jodi: If you have any questions for me come on over to my website, jodiuhman. com slash live. That is my show page. You could sign up to be a calling guest like Kim. You could sign up and you could sign up to get reminders for the show so you know what the topic is of the week. And you could email me back and say, please let me call in and get some coaching and we will have you on.
[00:43:45] Dr. Jodi: So go ahead to my website, check out. And if you sign up for updates, you get this Gen Z mental health resource guide. And you know what? It's not just for Gen Z. We're all struggling every age. If you're a parent, if you're an educator, if you're a caregiver at all, if you're a counselor, if you're a sensitive soul, you are struggling because it's a regular human response to our world.
[00:44:10] Dr. Jodi: And we need to stick together and lift us all up and out of it together. So I will see you right here next week on at Dr. Jodi.